FCE Orange
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Topic created by kathyu on Mon Jul 12, 2010 at 9:15 pm
Sorry we had to miss FCE last weekend, but maybe someone could tell us about that second orange control! From the splits, it looks like it was hard for most competitors to find!
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Reply by edscott on Mon Jul 12, 2010 at 10:58 pmIt was in a relatively complicated part of the map, but there was a trail to within 120 meters of the flag with a strong attack point at a trail bend which was at a stream crossing. From there the edges of the rock screes and the adjoining stream led to the platform. It probably looked very intimidating, but the best strategy here was to simplify the map to the essential components and ignore everything else
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Reply by DSevon on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 6:49 amEd's comments make sense, and everybody will have a chance to look at the map when I get the files for RouteGadget uploaded later today. However, Kathy's comments mirror my thoughts when I saw the results as only 3 out of 11 found the 2nd control. Hopefully someone who did orange will provide some insight.
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Reply by dparson on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 4:39 pmFinally opened an eboard account so I could post to this one, no avatar yet . . .
Having designed the courses, of course I was concerned about orange as the results came in. Roger had predicted that this control might be trouble, but with a stream wrapping around this platform that was running water even before Saturday's rain, I figured a nice distinct linear feature like that made for at least an easy second attack if the first one failed.
I got to discuss this with Ed, Vadim and Ron later that day, but unfortunately no one who ran orange stopped to talk with me about it, which is a shame, because the control was about a 10 minute walk from the start. I would have gladly walked out there to give a little tutorial.
In fact the west->east leg of the trail that Ed mentions above bends away a mere 75 meters from the control -- I just measured 5 mm on the map x 15,000. That's about 45 steps for me. When I hung that flag Friday I just walked to that bend and kept on walking straight. I was actually thinking about something else and not paying much attention, and 75 meters later I came to the stream, looked up and saw the ribbon that I had hung on Memorial Day.
The day I hung the ribbon I had stayed on the trail after the bend until it hit that creek 60 meters to the NE, then walked up the creek that wraps around the control's platform, just to make sure that the creek was distinct. *That day's attack was strictly using linear handrails -- a trail to a trail / creek junction, and then the creek!* I never left a linear handrail.
I think the problem was the noise on the map. There is a lot of rocky ground in that area that tends to distract when looking at the map. I found out that I needed bifocals about 10 years ago on that part of that map.
In line with Ed's comments above, I think the reason that I walked right up to that control site when hanging the flag without even paying much attention is because I also was not paying attention to irrelevant features on the map here. All I cared about were the trail, the bend in that trail, the creek that wraps around the control site's platform, and a wet ditch just west of the creek. I didn't have to cross the rocks or deal with the other clutter on the map, so they didn't really register after a quick look at the map. Knowing what to ignore is essential.
How does one acquire that kind of mental filter? Practice in that kind of visual clutter. So I am not sure that removing the control from the course would have been a correct thing to do. How do people get practice otherwise?
I was surprised at the number of people who packed it in after control #2 instead of using the remainder as a training exercise. And we missed an opportunity to go back out and use it for training. Hopefully the orange folks won't be too put off by FCE courses. I DNF'd on my last FCE outing this last April after wearing myself out successfully reattacking a tough control (for me) on red. It was a lot of fun!
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Reply by sfmones on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 5:28 pm
I offer my sympathy to those who ran Orange. I was on Brown, and my personal version of Orange 2 was the deceptive Brown 5. It, too, was "only" about 100 meters (or less) from a trail junction. I knew exactly where the thing had to be, but I could not get there without going through some really nasty stuff that appears white on this map from 1892. I went up one trail, down the other trail, and poked around for awhile, but found no easy way to get to it. I bit the bullet, entered the green, and still could not find it. After thrashing around for about what it took Vadim to run the entire Red course, I did the obvious thing - I gave up. I decided to just get out of Dodge and find a trail home ... and I promptly walked right into the control. I should have quit sooner.
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Reply by edscott on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 5:58 pmYes 4 and 5 were the potential disaster points on Brown. For #4 I would have headed straight for the power line and counted poles upon arrival to see exactly where I was.. hopefully between the 4th and 5th poles down from the ridge, then using the platform on the edge of the right of way, headed for the easternmost platform & reentrant combination then followed the top edge of the steeper slope to the flag. For #5 I would have tried to stay just a touch to the left and picked up either the double boulder, the colliers hut, or the ditch to swing me back to the right. If all failed, then I'd just plunge in from the trail bend to the NE and follow that ditch, or follow the ditch that leaves the trail near the Junction to the east, which ever was closer to where I hit the trail.
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Reply by dparson on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 6:22 pmThe two recovery keys to Brown #5 are the dry ditches pointing to it like a pair of arrows, one from the north and the other from the southeast. I ribboned it attacking on the one from the north in late May, and set the flag on Friday attacking from the one to the SE. The one from the north is a little grown up, but the one from the SE is easy to walk, and it literally connects to the trail. Again, two linear features: a trail to a trail / ditch junction, and then the ditch directly across a few rocks and into the large platform.
Not incidentally, I scratched two prospective control sites in that part of the map in May, including the original brown #5, because the woods were visually inpenetrable. This was the easy alternative. The only way to set courses in that part of the map is to do footwork.
My attack for brown #4 was to contour in off the power line and watch the direction of the contour lines. I just set my compass to a tangent to the contour lines for #4, ran until the compass needle lined up, using the steepening gradient below as a catching feature. In fact in May I attacked from the west using this technique, and on Friday from the east, using automatic-pilot-stepcount as a failsafe.
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Reply by edscott on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 6:45 pmYes Dale hits on a skill that is essential for success in French Creek.. pace counting. When I crossed the road on my way to Green 5 I was ready for a mental break, so I just set my compass and paced it out. I measured 400 meters to the flag and punched in at 395.And yes the ditches are the key. My ideal route above uses the northeastern one as the primary catching feature and the southeastern one as the recovery feature.
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Reply by Backpacker on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 0:27 amI was one of those who attempted the orange. After finding the large trail to the ruins, I shot a new bearing to the next marker and checked the map. I chose to run down the second small path to the east, looking for the second stream and dog leg with the rock. I found this trail hard to read. After finding what I thought was the dog leg and rock, I counted my thirty of so paces north, looking for the larger boulder and downed tree. After wandering this area for thirty minutes, stumbling thru the rock field, swamp vegetation, small stream and swatting at the blood thirsty hordes of mosquitoes, I came across a small change in elevation, for which I thought was just above the marker. Just me and a large group of mosquitoes buzzing around me. I realized I had no known reference point, better known as lost... This is where I came across another lost sole who came up the west side of the trail from ruins. After a short discussion, he went left, I went right, and taking a page from the fall training camp we decided to follow the water down hill, where it became larger and a new bearing could be shot. It so happens we stumbled on several other markers at the steam. with a new bearing in hand and back up the hill again, across the creek, up the trail, and one hour gone by, still no marker.
Frustrated, hot, dehydration, and those blasted mosquitoes got the best of me, I threw in the towel and mumbled to myself, Next time........
Similar features and the smaller map scale was something I was not used to. All in all it still was a good day with something to shoot for next time.
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Reply by edscott on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 8:12 amMap scale is certainly an issue with FCE. My recommendation for the future of the FCE map is to turn it into two overlapping maps at 1:10000. I'd also like to make a 1:5000 version of just the Baptism Creek area.
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Reply by sfmones on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 9:29 amI second Ed's nomination of FCE being remapped at 1:10,000. My eyes are not getting any younger. Might as well save some ink and just print the new map(s) on green paper.
Ironically, I was most worried about Brown 4 when I first looked at it because there were no catching features anywhere nearby and I generally am direction-challenged when trying to go in a straight line for more than about 100 meters. However, it turned out to be one of the ferw with which I did not have problems. I headed east to the power line cut, then took a bearing and pace counted directly at the control location. I followed the contours and came out pretty close. I was a bit short, but about a minute of looking turned up the control. I figured Brown 5 would be easy after that. How hard could it be when it was practically at a trail junction and there were two big ditches marked on the map? Wrong. I was looking for the ditches and never saw them. I saw a lot of other ditches at other places, but not the ones for which I was looking. After that, Brown 6 looked easy: just look for the straight trail and backtrack slightly to the control. If that trail exists, I did not see it. I only lost a few minutes, though, and then I simply ran to Brown 7 and missed the fastest time by seconds. At that point, I just wanted to go home.
I have mixed emotions about FCE. On the one hand, I did well (relatively speaking) on Orange on my first visit to FCE in spring 2008. That was only the third time I ever orienteered on my own, and it is memorable to me as it represents the first time I went off-trail by design rather than necessity. On the other hand, I cannot honestly say that last July's French Inquisition or this latest ordeal was enjoyable. Nothwithstanding any remapping, or the admitted fact that the fault lies with me and not my stars, in the future I probably will stick to spring and fall at FCE and let the pros handle it in the summer. -
Reply by dparson on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 10:07 amThat word "enjoyable" is telling. One must cultivate a certain acquired taste for masochism to fully enjoy the sport! The second broken ankle ended my years of serious competitive spirit at local meets, but the mosquitos, horse flies and thickets involved in field checking and reparing initial course drafts and hanging controls for this meet were just typical parts of the experience
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Reply by kathyu on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 1:03 pmWe're thinking about going out to French Creek this weekend, see how we do on that orange or brown. We can make up maps by using route gadget to get the course and put it on an old map from the collection. Can someone tell us the control #s and features for orange and brown? If you can scan them, email to k_m_urban at comcast dot net. Thanks!
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Reply by dparson on Thu Jul 15, 2010 at 4:42 pmKathy, I've emailed you PDF Clue sheets for orange and brown and JPEGs of the courses at some scale, probably not 1:15,000.
Good luck. If I didn't already have commitments for this weekend, I'd consider doing a reunion of interested orange and brown runners for visiting those controls.
Good luck! -
Reply by scottthatcher on Fri Jul 16, 2010 at 6:46 am
A little late ...but thought I would add Chase's comments on the Orange #2 control....
He read the messages and totally agreed with dale's approach to the control...follow the trail and go straight at the bend. Of course his eyes are way better than miine and I believe I would have had trouble on this one! He mentioned that the trail was hard to follow , but he could make it out. He also was not that excited about going out and walked most of the course which could be a good thing at French Creek sometimes...staying in contact with the map. -
Reply by DaveDarrah on Sat Jul 17, 2010 at 9:28 amHi:
I chose Orange at the start, for the first time in many years, because of the
added length and control count (compared to Brown), and the hope that the
control placement would be at an easier level (refer to earlier comments
about the complexity of the FCE map) than Brown and higher.
On #2, I did choose the apparent correct attack point, the bend in the
"small footpath" trail 75m wnw of the control. My problem, I realized
early on, was my inability to discern the trail. I was concerned that
if it was a "small footpath" in 2000, it would most likely be demoted to
"indistinct" in 2010; but I didn't see any alternatives that I would be
comfortable with.
I did a heck of a lot of wandering around, several times running into
streams and wondering "is this the one?". I finally wound up on
the main trail 225m nw of the control. It was at this time that I decided
to skip #2 and attempt the remainder of the controls.
I've always had problems staying in contact with the map, and this
control took full advantage of that shortcoming.
Overall, though, I consider each control found a success, so I'm
looking at it this way: I had several more successes than I would
have had if I had run Brown!
I know a lot of work goes into course design, and I'm always thankful for
those who take this task on. Appreciation goes to Dale, and all who
helped at this meet.
Dave.
