Membership
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Topic created by sfmones on Tue Dec 7, 2010 at 1:32 pmI was perusing the year-end statistics and reviewing my progress over the three years I have been involved in the sport. One item that caught my eye was the decreasing number of participants. In my first full year of orienteering, 2008, there were 180 individuals ranked. In 2009, there were 162, and this year there were 150 individuals ranked. Anyone have any thoughts or comments on this trend?
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Reply by kathyu on Tue Dec 7, 2010 at 2:45 pmFor a different approach to this ever increasing problem, why not ask the 12 people who were ranked last year but not this year? I wonder if they among the more senior members of the club. Maybe some people age out.
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Reply by edscott on Tue Dec 7, 2010 at 4:26 pmThere are probably a multitude of reasons. We used to have the schedule done and confirmed at or just after the winter meeting for the entire year. We used to have our events advertised in local daily and weekly newspapers a week or so prior to the event and issued a printed schedule for handing out at our events and send to other groups with similar interests. We used to have enough people willing to set courses and direct events to hold 40+ events every year, often having a Saturday White & Yellow at one venue followed by a full course event the next day somewhere else.Here are some additional numbers to add to Steve's observations.Total attendance for the year:2010 = 51492009 = 51062008 = 61282007 = 65412006 = 75682005 = 82172004 = 74902003 = 72482002 = 80572001 = 89152000 = 7658And Kathy, I think you are correct, and at the other end of the stream there are fewer replacements being recruited.
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Reply by rgbortz on Tue Dec 7, 2010 at 10:11 pmHere's to wishful thinking that those who are concerned that membership and the total numbers of ranked members will increase attend the winter meeting ready with ideas for implementation to make this happen.
The winter meeting is perhaps the best opportunity an individual member has to brainstorm collectively with the club at large. Hope to see a record number of members there. -
Reply by randy on Wed Dec 8, 2010 at 4:39 pmFor a different approach to this ever increasing problem, why not ask the 12 people who were ranked last year but not this year?
This is probably one of the best ideas I've ever seen posted on an orienteering forum.
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Reply by EricW on Wed Dec 8, 2010 at 7:10 pmI'll suggest that Ed's "old ideas", listed above, are difficult to top on a priority list, and are more than enough to work on.
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Reply by Guy-O on Wed Dec 8, 2010 at 8:06 pm
I suspect the economy has been a drag on O-ing, just as it has been a drag on everything else.
What is the trend on attendance per event? And per ranking event? -
Reply by Orienteeringmom on Wed Dec 8, 2010 at 9:56 pmDenny and I are probably among the ones that are no longer ranked and there are a couple of reasons. One being the kids have grown up and moved out and they were the ones, especially Corinne that pushed us to go every weekend in the beginning. I became greatly involved with the national junior program which did pull us away from the local club at times and sometimes I had to work on things for the national juniors on the weekends rather than go to a DVOA meet. Finally like Guy stated the lost of work for Denny's business and the need for him to take a second shift position with a company rather than being self employed has made our weekends when he is not working weekends very important to us. Not that orienteering isn't important but most weeks Saturday and Sunday are the only days that we see each other awake and there are other things we need to do together with this time.
So there is a number of reasons why our numbers could be down but that is no reason for us to not try and get them back up. I think Ron has a good idea but the most important thing is some NEW blood to help carry out the ideas that we will come up with. Lots of us are tired and need a helping hand to keep it going! -
Reply by randy on Wed Dec 8, 2010 at 10:27 pm@Guy
Not all the data you asked for, but some.
http://www.dvoa.org/info/stats.php
I'm not sure why it is different than Ed's data.
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Reply by kathyu on Wed Dec 8, 2010 at 10:53 pmPublicity would help, but we can't publicize an event until it has a check mark, meaning permits have been issued and it's definitely on. By that time, publication deadlines have come and gone. Are park requirements more onerous than they used to be?
We actually have 2 issues -- 1) getting people out for the first time, and 2) getting them to return and eventually become club members. -
Reply by edscott on Wed Dec 8, 2010 at 11:18 pmOne difference might be the difference between starts ( number of maps) and participants (number of people). Other differences are whether A Events and Scout events are included.And Kathy is right again about the advance publicity. It all hinges on the permissions.
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Reply by FredR on Thu Dec 9, 2010 at 9:57 amNo doubt the permission problem makes things harder. But the notion that we need a schedule printed far in advance--and therefore permissions far in advance--is so "20th century." If 100s of people can gather today in a matter of minutes as a "flash mob", why can't we think in terms of "flash-O".
Seriously, the publicity problem can be thought of as two independent parts: 1) making people aware of O'ing and how it might be among a number of potential "fun things to do this weekend", and 2) that on *this particular day* there is an O event that is sufficiently convenient/attractive to be an actual fun thing to do this weekend.The first part can be addressed well ahead of time by all means such as printed materials, articles in papers and magazines, clinics at local sporting goods stores, and so on. But it doesn't require having specific events nailed down far into the future.The second part is something that social networking like facebook, twitter, etc., as well as our great web site are probably best for. Just think if we could get a thousand "friends" signed up to receive tweets, emails, etc. with an invitation to each upcoming event. It could be localized (only tell me about events in PA), include extra info (the predicted weather is perfect for O'ing), and other incentives (extra training available, a $2 off coupon, etc.). -
Reply by edscott on Thu Dec 9, 2010 at 10:24 amMany people plan weekend activities in advance. Course setters need time to plan courses. We need to know our map printing needs months in advance. I believe having an established and predicable scheduling process is essential.
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Reply by randy on Thu Dec 9, 2010 at 11:06 amRegarding social media, I'm a bit confused. I am certainly pretty clueless about it, so my question may sound stupid.
Print media is good at reaching people with no extant relationship. Social media is good at reaching people with extant relationships (so, IMHO, it is more or less useless -- I can get tweets from USOF (I think) and become a fan of QOC on Facebook if I want to, but why would I? -- all the information I need from those sources is already available via pre-existing relationship channels).
So, my question is this -- how does one use social media to reach unrelated parties? Are we supposed to ask our friends to sign up for DVOA tweets even tho they have no such relationship? I certainly would feel awkward inviting my friends to become fans of DVOA's Facebook (who I know already either have an extant relationship, or, for the most part, are not interested).
I hope this doesn't sound stupid or facetious (neither is intended), but you hear so much about leveraging social media, and you see commercials on TV telling you how to sign up to receive tweets about some brand of shampoo, but how specifically would leveraging social meda work to reach parties with no relationship to an orienteering club?
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Reply by FredR on Thu Dec 9, 2010 at 11:33 amOops--I wasn't implying that we don't need good scheduling for other reasons, like map printing and course setting. Although it has been suggested elsewhere, we're probably not near a "just in time" capability for producing events.I was specifically talking about the question of getting new and/or more people to events. Except for people involved in putting the event on, it seems to me very few people look far into the future when deciding to go to an event, and particularly for the casual attendees that we're trying to attract. I'll go out on a limb and say that except for the ED and course setter (and the scheduler I guess), no one cares to know in March that we're definitely having an event in French Creek in August.I remember a few years back Sandy F was trying to put together teams for the US relay champs and had asked for input by a certain date so she could do her work. It was my first relay and when the date came and went without any word as to whether I had made it onto a team, I asked her about it. Her answer was something like "orienteers always wait until the last minute" and she had not received enough replies to make up the teams. If that's the case for an A event that involves travel and effects other people's plans (teams, car-pooling), then how much planning goes into attending local events?In short, while there are many good reasons for improving the scheduling and permissions process, I don't buy into the logic that increasing attendance hinges on getting earlier permissions.
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Reply by kent on Thu Dec 9, 2010 at 11:48 amAnother telling statistic is the average age of the ranked orienteers:
2010 44.6 2009 41.6 2008 40.8 2007 41.6 2006 41.8 2005 41.7 2004 40.9 2003 40.2 2002 38.6 2001 35.9 2000 36.7
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Reply by kathyu on Thu Dec 9, 2010 at 11:54 amBlurbs in weekend sections of local papers are (IMHO) the best way to reach people who are looking for something interesting to do. We need permissions about 30 days before the event to place blurbs. It would be unfortunate to place a notice and find the event is a no-go.
I would also suggest that colleges and universities have lots of people of just the age we would like to attract to orienteering. How to reach them?
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Reply by Sandy on Thu Dec 9, 2010 at 12:42 pmI have invited students of mine to orienteering events over the years and occasionally (like for Ridley) get a few to show up. But Kathy's question led me to wonder whether it would be worth trying to get space in college newspapers when an event will be taking place nearby. So, for example, if we have an event at Hickory Run next spring, maybe we should maybe we should try to get something in the college papers of Kutztown, Bloomsburg and even Bucknell. If we have an event at Fair Hill, perhaps we could target the Univ. of Delaware paper. Don't know if it would work, but maybe worth a try. If a particular college newspaper has a "things to do this weekend" section, we could get something placed for free, but if not, perhaps we ought to consider paying for an ad a few times and seeing if gets any students to show up.
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Reply by edscott on Thu Dec 9, 2010 at 12:59 pmYes I think ads in student newspapers would be money well spent. Also most local papers have a "weekend" section that lists coming events. Our local paper also does a monthly event calendar so needs something like a 50-60 days notice. Googling "what to do this weekend" isn't going to bring anyone to one of our events. They have to know the word Orienteering first.
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Reply by mcrunner on Thu Dec 9, 2010 at 3:08 pmWell, when I was doing publicity for the club a few years back, I did regularly send notices to publicity outlets at colleges near events, often the college radio station. Not sure if any of these appeared or had any effect. However, I do have a question. Are you trying to recruit participants who will occasionally orienteer or people who have the desire and lots of time available to run and work at events? It seems to me that college students already have many demands on their time, as well as attractive alternatives for their leisure time. I can't see them showing up for more than the occasional event. Their initial experience might be at an event conveniently local for them, but are they going to travel when the next few events may require a 2-3 hour round trip?
As for local papers, as Kathy noted, their deadlines are usually too far in advance for most events to be publicized. Before the recent problems with park permissions causing cancellations, event directors/course setters would sometimes wait until just days before an event to impart important changes or information. I ended up streamlining the notices to try to interest readers into looking at the website, because it was the only way I could trust they would have the information they needed. -
Reply by edscott on Thu Dec 9, 2010 at 3:45 pmI agree that all printed notices need to be a bit lean in the details and include the website for future reference. Many of the detail changes seen in the past couple years can be traced to changes caused by incomplete planning. If the Map, date, course setter, parking area, and course selection are established before Feb 15 for the entire year there's not much else to edit.
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Reply by kathyu on Thu Dec 9, 2010 at 4:11 pm
Then who is our target market? Where are we going to find people like us, who love the outdoors, being active, in generally technical occupations, obsessed with maps, snappy dressers (just kidding), competitive, intelligent and who don't go to church on Sunday?
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Reply by Mac on Thu Dec 9, 2010 at 5:05 pmHere are possible sources http://www.races2run.com/Running%20Clubs%20-%20Marathon%20Sports.htm
of people who might really want to orienteer - but who just don't know it yet. -
Reply by furlong47 on Fri Dec 10, 2010 at 0:04 amKutztown offers orienteering as a gym elective (rather infrequently, I believe every other or every fourth semester) and the class comes out to about 3 DVOA events, typically. I had a friend who took the class because he knew that I did orienteering. (And then I could tag along to meets with them) But I don't know of anyone, including my friend, who continued to orienteer after the class ended.
Why is getting permissions far enough ahead of time an issue? SVO has a dedicated event coordinator, and as soon as we set the schedule for the season he gets all the permits and insurance in line right away. If there's a problem with a date or using a certain area we have time to change it. Generally there are no issues except when management changes at one of the venues; some of the people are extremely laid back and others can be more strict. The same person has been doing permissions for several years and so has an ongoing relationship with most of the managers. -
Reply by edscott on Fri Dec 10, 2010 at 9:40 amYes the Kutztown course has been around for quite some time, but I've been told that this past semester was the last one. Budget cuts.
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Reply by BRycharski on Fri Dec 10, 2010 at 12:16 pmOn this Promotional thread, just know that Again I have been quietly Promoting Orienteering in NJ at the many DVOA and also at Scout events. Some times I just do Flyers, sometimes i just help answer email questions from various persons from last years events (Mass email of Scout leaders only)
This year many of you have noted that Quail Hill had a very large Scout turn out. This was due to yeoman promotion by me - and as Usual I invited - back leaders from Last Octobers 2009 Quail Hill /Rutgers events, dropped 40 or more paper "flyers" at local Scout offices (in Sept, else get other Outdoors friends (like Art E)helpers to drop them off). But this year I tried something totally new, E-newsletter. Having preped the Scout executive/Publisher at the Monmouth council (Near the NJ Shore), this ad ran for 3 months. My preliminary and unscientific review of BS of America - Troops that attended were, 2 units (at least) saw the event news on the DVOA schedule, 8 scout leaders/Units were repeat attendees from last year, but the vast majority (about 50%) saw the new E-news , 2 paragraph O artical with my email listed as POC. It worked for me this year (436 total attendees (Youths or DVOA members). Best find, two unit leaders in Edison told all there neighboring Scout units (4), that was unexpected. One diff Leaders wife asked if Colts Neck HS Outdoors club (New orienteering club to boot) could come (she had the e news article) , and as I always I stated "all welcome". And Two diff Quail Hill local units Camping on site- Scout units the area "lead" Campmaster recomended (i.e. word of Mouth) DVOA map hiking, as a well run O event (they were walk On's). So to end this, no "one" way will reach out to potential new O hikers of any sort, a varied and low/high tech promotion ED solution is suggest by me to work best. Happy DVOA New promotion Year to all members. -
Reply by Guy-O on Mon Dec 13, 2010 at 5:15 amGoing back to Ed's Tue Dec 7 post, I can think of one other bit of publicizing that seems to have stopped: the weekly event(s) reminder message sent to the DVOA e-mail list.
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Reply by kathyu on Mon Dec 13, 2010 at 8:30 amI didn't know there was a DVOA email list. Details?
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Reply by kent on Mon Dec 13, 2010 at 8:46 amFrom the main menu, go to People -> Yahoo Email Lists
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Reply by kent on Tue Dec 14, 2010 at 1:36 pmThe Tuesday morning notices got clobbered in one of the updates related to moving the membership database online. There aren't any events on the schedule for the next couple of weeks, so there won't be any reminders until two weeks prior to the annual meeting.
