SIMPLIFICATION......Is It Time To Change ?
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Topic created by rgbortz on Thu Nov 5, 2015 at 9:30 amNumerous moments of confusion about the event equipment, both e-punch and admin, have hovered just beneath the surface for Event Directors and Course Setters throughout this year, and previously.It's been suggested by a number of people and perhaps is now time to consolidate the two seperate sets of equipment to put on an event.The e-punch takes much more maintenance than the admin kits. My suggestion is to have an admin kit (just the essentials) travel with the e-punch kits. This greatly simplifie transfers, especially for the people new to putting on an event. With a check list in hand it woudn't be difficult to keep up the status of supplies and maintenance at each event. More than just myself could and shoud have this check list (which would also be included in each kit) to facilitate the reporting of kit status. The supporting equipment, i.e. tents, tables, chairs,etc,etc. can be kept anywhere and requests made for these items to be picked up or brought to events.Like any well oiled machine there needs to be one single main component ( switch, gear, lever) that keeps the whole thing operating smoothly. I would be glad to be that component.I'm not looking to be the sole person responsible for all this stuff, just the point person.The current custodians of the admin kits could( if they wish) be responsible for checking up on the admin kits at the events and resupplying them as needed.I don't think there is much debate about this but I believe many of you have thoughts on this.Please, if you are new to the process of putting on an event it's doulbly important you make your views known, either here or in person at an event, or to my personal email. alliron69@cs.com.Thanks for your inputE-Punch CoordinatorRon Bortz
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Reply by Steve on Thu Nov 5, 2015 at 11:27 amOverall, I agree that the kits (currently 1-6) and the epunch (currently red and blue) should be picked up at one time from one person. The problems become much more difficult when we do multiple events in one weekend, or have a special event requireing both kits (like Hickory Run, or an A meet). that is , how to get the equipment moved in a timely matter when the person that needs the equipment is at his busiest , most nerve wracking moment. Many times I have been either dealing with map printing or last minute field checking the weekend before my event, therefore not being at the event of the day.I am assuming that the non-kit equipment would include tents, tables, water jugs, and 'runner in road' signs. Would it make sense to store this stuff with the printers, so it could be picked up with the maps?
Are we moving forward with the purchase of a third or fourth e punch kit? How many pin punch events (including school programs and corporate events) a year are we putting on? Where will the pin punch flags be stored? I have done 3 events this year,( 1 for a scout camporee, and 2 Saturday WY) that I did not feel were worth the hassel of getting and using the epunch system.Also, on a side tangent, is it still appropriate to leave 30 $1 bills in the kit? At $7 a map, that would be 10 maps if everyone paid with a $10. Since ATM's seem to give out $20 bills mostly, perhaps we should start carring $5 bills also, so $6 change, or $13 change is easier to dispense. It should be noted that the $30 was started when the map fee was $3/$5 per map rate. -
Reply by edscott on Thu Nov 5, 2015 at 7:34 pmOne problem is that the kits have become to large for many vehicles to handle. The administrative kits typically are 6 large rubbermaid tubs plus some assorted tarps, tables etc. We currently have six of these kits housed in different parts of our area which gives most club members relatively easy access. Granted there is probably a lot of things still in those kits that are not necessary. Eliminating some of the seldom used items will help.An associated problem is storage and distribution of map bags. I've been corresponding with Fred on this one. Now that many of our events are done on maps specially printed for the event we could reduce the number of map sizes we use and reduce the number of bag sizes we stock. I know what I have here, but get little input onwhat is squirreled away elsewhere. Minuimum purchases are usually 1000 bags at $100+/box. We can't afford to give each kit a full supply, but I need to be kept aware of where our supplies are located so they can be distributed promptly and so we are not overstocked.
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Reply by rgbortz on Thu Nov 5, 2015 at 10:42 pmThe cost of a full e-punch kit approaches $10,000. I made a previous suggestion that a seperate special fund for e-punch be set up for people to donate to strictly for e-punch. I stand by that suggestion. Evidence exists that there are people in the club acceptable to this, but I am not aware of any such fund. Seems we are looking a gift horse or two or three in the mouth.I know we have a substantal stock of map bags but if we were to use the printing method used at the Scottish Six Day we wouldn't need map bags. Maybe we could find a buyer for our stock ? Of course I don't know the cost differential to go to this type of printing. Fred would probably be able to answer that.I'm confident the kits can be wittled down to a compact enough size for transport in almost any vehicle. Short of that supplies often get divided up among two different people involved with the next event as it is now. As mentioned in the opening of this thread the bulky items must be requested and those items would be transported seperately from the essentials.
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Reply by Steve on Thu Nov 5, 2015 at 11:15 pm6 months ago, Len Pollicelli talked about a Pennsyvania State matching grant program for outdoor activitiy purchases. Now would be the time to prepare our application since the grants are passed out in the spring.
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Reply by brambles6 on Fri Nov 6, 2015 at 11:59 pmOk, Ron: I'll bite. What's the map printing system used at Scottish Six Day? I always thought the chief use of map bags was to protect the map in inclement weather.
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Reply by Sandy on Sat Nov 7, 2015 at 10:04 amMost of the large European events use waterproof paper for the maps and so there is no need for map bags. The paper is not cheap though and you also need to print with a waterproof printing technique.
I'm fairly certain the cost of printing with waterproof paper is more expensive than the cost of the map bags. For large events, the costs may be reduced (buy the paper in bulk) and you can also factor in the time savings of having to bag the maps and then seal the bags.
I've purchased small quantties (a ream) of waterproof paper and have used it when course setting. It's handy. But I don't know if it's worth the extra cost, especially for local events. Would be nice though! -
Reply by Guy-O on Sat Nov 7, 2015 at 10:55 pmI would suggest that keeping the map dry is just one reason to use map cases.The other would be to keep the map clean and minimize tear-prone creases. So, basically preservation...
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Reply by rgbortz on Sun Nov 8, 2015 at 9:39 amFeedback from as many club members as possible about consolidating kits is very much appreciated and important. Please post your views.As for the sidebar about maps........let me show you my Scottish Six Day maps after abuse by a very aggressive runner in punnishing terrain. It is sooooo nice not to have plastic creases and water on the plastic distorting details you don't want to miss while on the run. Nobody is suggesting to get rid of map bags with the current type of paper and printing methods.
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Reply by Len on Sun Nov 8, 2015 at 11:04 pmFrom my limited expirence, I could see a kit for the CS that has what is needed to set the course in the woods and prep the e-punch - and a kit for the ED that has what is needed to run the event.
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Reply by ErikEddy on Mon Nov 9, 2015 at 12:01 pm
I haven't experienced any issues.. mostly due to proper planning and also being close to a kit owner, but continuous improvement is definately encouraged.
I could see some benefit in explicity separating the kits into Course Setter (epunch boxes+computer+control flags+stakes+glue sticks+map bags+???) and Event Director (banners, clipboards, etc.). We should probably get rid of some stuff and make the kit at least one tub smaller. Size of the kits is the biggest barrier besides improper planning and distance between members/events.
We are still split into two kits this way so not sure if this solves whatever issue exists.
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Reply by rgbortz on Mon Nov 9, 2015 at 9:32 pmEverything would remain two seperate kits so they can go seperate ways from any given event to get to the next event.The change would be to keep a particular admin kit going to the same event a particular e-punch kit is going to so that the people involved with the next event don't have to track down the numbered admin kit listed on the EDs page on the website.Decisions could be made which admin kits would travel with the e-punch kits and the remaining admin kits would stay with whoever it would be most advantageous to stay with.This would eliminate "Who do I get the e-punch kit from.......wait.....I also have to get the admin kit somewhere else ?"
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Reply by kathyu on Tue Nov 10, 2015 at 9:29 amare we brainstorming? How about this?What if the club had a storage locker and kept everything there including the tents, blades, kits, computers, etc. and the ed/course setter went there to pick up what they needed and then returned it promptly?
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Reply by rgbortz on Wed Nov 11, 2015 at 9:46 amBut then who is going to keep tabs on the equipment ? this requires going to locker weekly.Maintenance. All equipment returned? Where is equipment not returned?Extra trips required by all to get to the locker instead of picking up at events.Yes, this is intended to be a brainstorming thread; keep the ideas/thoughts coming.
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Reply by DaveUrban on Wed Nov 11, 2015 at 3:12 pmHow about this option: Keep the large less often used stuff in the storage locker(s). Add some feature to the ED/CS part of the website to see the inventory and allow checking/checkout of the stuff. This lets EDs & CSs know what club stuff is available and keeps it in central location(s) for any required maintaining.
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Reply by Steve on Wed Nov 11, 2015 at 8:53 pmA central storage area, either rented or in someones back yard, is 1 1/2 hours from Tom Overbaugh (Newark DE), and 1 1/2 hours from me (Bethlehem PA). Move closer to one, and farther from the other. Multiple storage sites is much more desirable.It should be noted that Ron has taken on the e-kits as a mobile central location, and done an excellent job. When he is ready to back off, his replacement will have a high standard to meet
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Reply by rgbortz on Thu Nov 12, 2015 at 10:35 amThe only way to properly maintain and care for equipment ( think drying out flags,tents,etc. ) is for the equipment to be kept at conciencious club member's homes.There are a few past EDs and CSs out there that prompted the start of this thread. Hopefully they are reading this and will give their input. Perhaps you don't want to create your user profile in order to make posts or any number of reasons you are not posting. I would like a personal email with your opinions so this issue can be resolved,either to keep things as they are (which in my mind is working but coud be less complicated) or to consolidate e-punch and admin kits for simplifying transfer of equipment.alliron69@cs.com
