Hay Creek
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Topic created by WindWalker on Sun May 22, 2011 at 9:37 pmThey all can't be easy... This was a good challenging course for sure. I liked it, kept your mind in the game.
I had intentions of bumping back to green after only ever doing one red at Tyler last week. After reading all the warning notes at sign up this seemed like a good idea. But the fine folks at reg. swayed me to red...
I never mind the walk to the start and the pace counting markers were a nice touch.
I got mixed up on a few controls but had some sweet scores on some others, so it all balanced out for a great day chasing O controls. One thing that helped today in the darnkess of the woods and the cloud cover was my magnifying glass. I have a hard time seeing the detail in less than bright light, damn old age. I picked one up since Tyler since I missed some key features there. I threw it in my pocket not sure if I would need it, but just in case. It came out pretty early on and was in service on most of the legs. It proved to be most helpful on some of the legs. It is now standard gear.
Thanks guys for another great event.
And Ron, thanks for setting a tough course - one only improves one's skill by pushing beyond the norm.
A good example -
Lisa, my wife did her second orange today after running orange at Tyler. We used the walk to start to go over alot of stuff I've been passing along to her as I learn. This was helpful for her, she told me at the end. She was the last finisher and I was pretty proud of her that she found them all and didn't give up, even though it took a good while. Like Sandy said at the download, if you can do this orange, you can do brown. She pushed beyond the norm and came out with more learned skill and confidence than if it would have been easy.
Mike
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Reply by DaveUrban on Mon May 23, 2011 at 8:44 amThanks to Dan, Zack, and Ron for a good event. I liked all the route choice options and challenging controls. Will be back next year
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Reply by Vadim on Mon May 23, 2011 at 9:14 amRon, thanks for a challenging courses. We need those once in awhile to keep our skills at high. And thanks to all who helped at event.
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Reply by DaveDarrah on Mon May 23, 2011 at 10:44 amThanks to Ron and all for concocting another successful DVOA meet. And yes, the Brown course was sufficiently challenging. Prime example, the route choices between 6 (55) and 7 (66).
However, the big hitter for me was 9 (52). Looks like it was for others, too, judging from splits for Brown, Red and Blue [coming from (67)], and Green [coming from (61)]. Several of us pow-wow'ed around a very distinct, but phantom (i.e., not mapped?) platform at -75.805454 / 40.237605 (coords from my wrist gps) wondering if the control flag/box was missing. I was lucky to find the mapped (but, to me, nowhere near as distinct) platform about 93 meters (again, according to my gps) to the NE.
You'll get a chance to see my drunken sailor route searching for this control when I upload to RG. Be sure you're sitting down!
As always, it's great to spend a Sunday morning in the woods. Wouldn't have it any other way! Again, thanks to all involved. -
Reply by bobburg on Mon May 23, 2011 at 12:58 pmYes, they were great challenging courses. Had to stay in close touch with the map checking off the multitude of features as I went along.
Thanks Ron, Dan, Zac, Sandy and all who helped out. -
Reply by sfmones on Mon May 23, 2011 at 1:52 pmThank you to Dan, Zac, and Ron for stepping up to keep this event on the calendar. It was also a nice touch to keep the snakes at the Porta-Pottie rather than on the courses.
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Reply by wilburdeb on Mon May 23, 2011 at 9:32 pmZac and I want to thank all the competitors that came out to Hay Creek for a most excellence Bortz challenge. Ron did his magic, setting courses almost as hard and technical as Mt. Penn (earlier this year). Congratulations to all who found a control. All the courses, White though Blue were especially challenging.
Special mention goes to all the winners of each course:
White ------- Alice Wilson
Yellow ------ Sonya Ewert
Orange ------ Dima Paulau
Brown ------ Ed Scott
Green ------ Jenny Arvidsson
Red ------ Petr Hartman
Blue ------ Wyatt Riley
Special Thanks
Thanks to the Hay Creek Watershed Association for joining in the fun, providing excellent refreshments and conversation (I especially enjoyed the peanut butter chocolate cupcakes)
Thanks to Kulptown Fire Company for the pavilion and the Parking space
Notable happenings:- Lots of frogs everywhere
- The first finisher did not arrive back to the pavilion until nearly noon
- Max Linder from Sweden competed (he looked exhausted at the download station)
- Vadim Masalkov had the biggest blown control. He missed the furthest out control when picking up controls and didn't realize the miss until he got back to the pavilion.
- Nobody signed up to help at registration and we did fine.
Some of the people who made this event happen are:
Ron Bortz - Course Setter, Hanging Controls, Signage, Steamers, Maps and just about everything else
Ali Bortz - Hanging Controls, Hauling Water and letting Ron stay late on her special day! WOW
Anthony Knarr - Course Vetting, Hanging Controls Signage, keeping opa in line
Mark Frank - Orienteering Instruction and Registration
Mary Frank - Venue Reservation and Insurance
Bob Gross - Maps, Condes, OCAD
Sandy Fillebrown - Epunch (Schedule) and Results
Kent Shaw - Schedule, Results, Event Director application
Doug Sevon - Routegadget (any delay is my fault because I forgot to email the data to Doug)
Ed Niemann - Computer setup and Epunch Operator through most of the event
Fred Reed - Epunch Operation
Ed Scott - Control Pickup
Vadim Masalkov - Control Pickup
Petr Hartman - Control Pickup -
Reply by DSevon on Tue May 24, 2011 at 10:48 amRouteGadget is now loaded for this event: http://www.dvoa.org/cgi/gadget/reitti.cgi?act=map&id=161&kieli=
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Reply by edscott on Tue May 24, 2011 at 1:22 pmMy story at control #52. It was the next to last one on Brown, Green, Blue, and Red, plus the first control on Orange. I saw it as a minor diversion on the way to finish and didn't really do much but head into the area expecting to punch it and move on. When I got close I was drawn to a large flat area that had very little green ground cover, but when I arrived there it was not really a charcoal terrace. It was big enough and flat enough, but there were some rocks on the surface and it had no black soil. This is probably the spot that has people thinking there is an unmarked platform. Several of us circled about.. some left the area to relocate and I finally bailed back to the trail to use a better attack point. A few minutes later I arrived back at almost the same spot. As I turned to go to a third attack point I finally saw the real terrace just east of the first area and covered with knee high vegetation. I had not read the control description so I still thought it was not there, but as I started to move down the hill to the new attack point I noticed a flash of orange. Someone has already mentioned the 6-7 leg on Brown. Control #52 took me almost as long as Brown #7. I probably lost over 5 minutes bumbling around, a result of careless navigation and not looking at the description to see that it was off the edge and not directly on the terrace.
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Reply by kathyu on Tue May 24, 2011 at 4:16 pmI think orange was really hard, and since more people dnf'd than finished, I'm not the only one. I admit it is a good thing to have a variety of challenge levels, but this was tough. Too bad the streamers are not still up so I could go back on my own and try to learn from my mistakes. Maybe this would be a good event to run again with the same courses next spring or early winter.
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Reply by wilburdeb on Tue May 24, 2011 at 7:18 pmI truly believe that anyone who finished white, yellow or orange can feel comfortable moving up a level at their next event. For instance the white course used a charcoal platform, a pit, a reentrant, a bend in a stream and a knoll as control features. When Zac finished putting out the yellow course controls he commented that he had run easier orange courses than this yellow course (last week he finished his second Billy Goat race).
Dan Barker -
Reply by rgbortz on Tue May 24, 2011 at 10:17 pmHey Kathy and anybody and everybody who did or did not finish any course at Hay Creek on Sunday, I would gladly go out and hang streamers on the control sites used for this Orange course if a couple more of you say you want that. It sure would be great training.
Please know that my hope is for everyone to always finish their course. Setting courses during the spring transition from wide open woods to full green is, in my opinion, "the" most difficult season. The woods were totally clear in early April when I set these courses and I really thought none , including orange, would be as difficult as they seem to have turned out. I am not one to wait till the last minute to set courses. I doubt that waiting would help a lot anyway with the amount of green and the choices for creating interesting courses.
You guys on eboard are being great with your comments about the positives that come out of tough courses. It's terrific to know that all the effort that goes into course setting does not go unappreciated.
Back to hanging streamers..............they could be left up for the summer. On top of that my offer made a very long time ago to go out on a map of your choice to help anyone with improving your orienteering skills still stands. Just ask.
Who knew 52 would create so much entertainment when looking at Route Gadget ? -
Reply by kathyu on Sun May 29, 2011 at 11:58 pmDave and I went back to Hay Creek and the orange course. We started out badly -- we wandered around not really knowing where we were entering the map. We wound up at that enormous mountain of rubble (Ed, what is it?) which of course I had to climb for the spectacular view. But we finally got going and found #2 by coming in from the north this time. Dave had a doctored brown map, and found that the 2 on my orange map covered a helpful navigation point. One of the many reasons I was having trouble. We had no trouble finding 3 and 4, skipped 5-6-7, took the fainter trail to the reservoir, found 8 and headed in. Just for the lesson, I should have tried to re-find 2 from the trail to the south or along the contour. Without streamers, it was a little iffy, but there was a faint platform where it seemed the control was, and an elephant trail leading away from it. Hope someone who did well on orange puts a course in route gadget.
What was the optimum route to 9 -- up the stream or over the trail and south to 9?
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Reply by edscott on Mon May 30, 2011 at 8:11 amNot sure where you were but if that huge pile of rubble was relatively fresh it probably means you were wandering around north of the map on the H&K quarry property. But in general I think your question illustrates the need for a new feature in route gadget.. the ability for a course setter or event director to enter what they feel was the optimum route for discussion purposes.Here's what I'd be expecting an intermediate level Orienteer to do on that Orange course.1. Go through finish, go up the trail to the double boulders and head up the hill keeping the spur to the right.2. Really tough for Orange.. I picked up the flag after the event so I know it was visible from a long way off, but you don't know that standing at #1. I suspect heading for the main trail, climbing the hill, around the sharp bend, then using the indistinct trails heading west and toward the platform is the best route for an Orange runner.3. Also tough to hit straight on. Safe route is to go south for the main trail, then go on through to the second trail, then at the pit in the trail pace count in and look left. It was visible from the southernmost trail.4. Go to the more distinct trail junction just beyond the flag and go in from there. All those other trails are very indistinct in summer foliage.5. I guess just going straight south from the overgrown clearing area and being alert... Another really difficult one for Orange unless the woods is open enough to see it from a distance.6. Go down the trail heading north, at the platform go NW to the rocks and follow the west edge to the flag.7. Go downhill to the dry ditch and follow it to the platform. Follow the trail to the bend in the reentrant then follow the reentrant down to the cache.8. Get east of the major rock field then follow the edge down to the upper trail south of the lake. (Staying above the cliffs on the way down is a good plan, but the map doesn't really tell you that) Go around the lake and follow the stream up to the flag.9. Follow the stream... you could go to the trail and come back down to it, but I usually prefer thornless green to climbing.10. Go south to the second trail, aim off enough so that turning east will take you to the pit along the trail. Go south from there.11. Go East and let the trails guide you in.
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Reply by Steve on Mon May 30, 2011 at 9:37 amThe leg from 8 to 9 on orange was also the green 8-9, red 11-12, and blue 19-20. You may want to reveiw those people's route choices, but factor in that they may have more fatigue than you. I followed the stream and had no issues.
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Reply by WindWalker on Mon May 30, 2011 at 8:17 pmI took the up the stream approach, but for me that turned out less than optimal. I was too careless and didn't pay much attention and just started following the stream figureing it was a no brainer. Somewhere in there I lost map contact and talked myself into thinking I should have been there by now. So I went on a walkabout aimlessly looking. Once I got circled back around and realized I really needed to give this one a bit more credit than when I started out I quickly got back on track. But had lost alot of time.
Funny thing is my wife who was only one her second orange at Hay Creek and took 3.5 hours to finish, beat me on that control. She went out to the trail and attacked from the rocks.
Mike
