Rankings - Questions
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Topic created by DaveUrban on Tue Dec 15, 2015 at 7:08 pmThis topic usually gets some buzz on the board:1) What is the criteria to determine if an event is RANKED?2) If an event is determined to be RANKED, will some of the courses be UNRANKED?If this has all been documented - just point me to it. Thanks.
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Reply by furlong47 on Tue Dec 15, 2015 at 8:35 pmAFAIK all regular (daytime, foot, typical length) courses are usually ranked.I have seen Sprints counted some times but not other times. Not sure what makes the difference there.Special formats are unranked such as Night-O, Bike-O, Score-O, President's Cup, relay, etc. Sometimes a regular event will have one of these, so all the normal courses would be ranked and the special course wouldn't.There have been times when a course or event was supposed to be ranked but was taken out of rankings because of factors involving fairness (misplaced control that was fixed partway through the event, for example)
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Reply by Steve on Tue Dec 15, 2015 at 9:09 pmthe basic rule of thumb is that colored couses count (W Y O Br G R Bl).advanced, beginner, ect do not
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Reply by DaveUrban on Wed Dec 16, 2015 at 10:07 pmMakes sense.
Does not explaine 4/18 Star Village omitted fromranking.
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Reply by Steve on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 0:20 amSharon and I put that one on, not sure why it does not count. No one complained about anything that I know of, but it was a pretty low turnout.
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Reply by furlong47 on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 0:21 amI don't know if the math would have anything to do with it. There are only 6 possible rankable runs out of that whole event. Only 4 of those people had prior runs in the season. The way everything ties together, perhaps there wasn't enough data?
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Reply by Vadim on Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 5:59 pmRanking is NOT calculated for the events w/out at least 3 courses.
Courses with issues are also excluded from ranking. -
Reply by kathyu on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 12:32 pmIn 2013, 2014, and 2015--the number of ranked club members decreased by 10 each year, 156, 146, 136. Not a good trend!
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Reply by furlong47 on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 12:35 pmThere are a lot of people at 3 though. Just have to get them out to another event. And quite a few of them are names I would have expected at more than 3 events.
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Reply by edscott on Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 6:52 pmThis year we had to cancel a few events due to lack of permission, and/or a lack of people willing to take charge of the course setting or event directing jobs. In addition we had the lowest yearly participation since 1989. If we are to begin to regain our former numbers this problem has to be solved. I don't have quite all the data in yet but we had about 5 fewer events than we did in 2012 and we had about 2800 fewer starts. If we get more participation and more events we'll have more ranked runners.
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Reply by DaveUrban on Sat Dec 19, 2015 at 1:12 am"2800 fewer starts" is surprising given the numbers of JROTC & Scouts as some NJ events. If JROTC & Scouts are included in "2800 fewer" then that number is even more significant!
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Reply by edscott on Sat Dec 19, 2015 at 6:43 pmYes the Scout and ROTC partiicipants, as reported in the event reports, are included. If no event report is available the numbers are calculated or estimated based on the published results.
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Reply by Guy-O on Sun Dec 20, 2015 at 3:28 am5 fewer events would not come close to being the sole cause of 2,800 fewer starts. What is the 2012-2015 trend in average starts/event? And I hope those 2012 starts did not include NAOC...BTW, aren't the event report and published results the same thing?
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Reply by Steve on Sun Dec 20, 2015 at 5:51 pmNO, the event director is supposed to turn in a report that includes the weather, and the expenses, as well as the turn outIt is a primary tool for printing maps for the next event, and for deciding where to spend money re mapping parks
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Reply by kathyu on Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 8:27 pmThe ED report and the results should match, except you can't get the number of people in groups from the results. When I do the epunch close, I always count up the "extras" for the ED so they can report. The park seems very interested in the total participants.
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Reply by Guy-O on Tue Dec 22, 2015 at 4:24 amI thought that groups were listed in the results as Gn, where n = # in group...
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Reply by kathyu on Tue Dec 22, 2015 at 11:02 amRight as always Guy, it just gives the ED a count before the results are published.
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Reply by Vadim on Tue Dec 22, 2015 at 1:48 pmFYI, when ED/CS fills up Event Report online, they should be using published numbers wich are available after I process data from events.
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Reply by DaveUrban on Tue Dec 29, 2015 at 10:31 pmFollowing is summarized data (detail from Ed Scott database). Feel free to analyze and post yourconclusions. This data includes ALL events. PEOPLE column accounts for groups.
Year People Tot Maps W Y O Br G R B Score Sprint Other 2000 7658 5873 1076 1103 983 175 1119 811 176 430 0 0 2001 9114 6681 1371 1111 1101 411 1269 713 194 511 0 0 2002 7923 5985 1309 1025 868 305 1115 518 156 689 0 0 2003 7338 5682 1143 936 753 427 1018 619 146 640 0 0 2004 7713 5057 954 877 743 366 908 614 175 391 29 0 2005 8234 6159 1211 1024 654 512 1010 613 170 460 505 0 2006 7496 5444 1099 936 657 483 835 537 151 426 320 0 2007 6541 5440 940 896 736 481 887 578 126 541 255 0 2008 6115 4616 768 771 514 466 865 479 183 287 283 0 2009 5110 3554 567 542 536 482 657 371 59 112 228 0 2010 5585 4067 608 639 500 513 776 410 102 344 155 20 2011 5023 3802 464 654 538 631 643 377 103 299 51 42 2012 6826 5767 662 876 658 1001 1219 605 274 299 46 127 2013 5618 4468 484 747 615 683 831 385 142 501 0 80 2014 5307 4058 480 699 532 629 722 277 100 245 246 150 2015 5115 4051 450 869 541 584 736 280 100 360 6 125 -
Reply by furlong47 on Tue Dec 29, 2015 at 11:43 pmIt would be nice to have total number of events for comparison purposes. I guess we can go count them on the results page.Personally, from my Attackpoint log, I went to the lowest number of orienteering events this year of any year I have logged. (32 individual entries, compared to 43 each of the last two years, with previous lowest number being 35 in 2009.) Not on purpose. There were a lot of cancellations due to weather in Jan/Feb/March (including QOC events which I also go to, one of which I believe was postponed 3 or 4 times.) There were also a decent number of DVOA cancellations due to permission type issues, some of which also occurred multiple times for the same event.I do think 2012 is a bit anomalous due to NAOC. You can really see it in the course numbers. Lots of Br/G/R. If you eliminate that, the numbers are flattish since 2009. 2006 is when things start to fall off. What changed around then?
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Reply by furlong47 on Tue Dec 29, 2015 at 11:57 pmThese are years, number of events, number of ranked runners according to the rankings page. Note a few of the years appear to have a bizarre number of events (such as 85) which appears to be due to lots of school/corporate programs listed in the results. But I assume those people were counted also. A few events had splits listed like a separate event in the results which also adds to it.
Number of ranked runners actually also appears pretty flattish since 2003.2000 - 30 1952001 - 44 2532002 - 45 2052003 - 46 1862004 - 41 1562005 - 85 1752006 - 67 1832007 - 71 1782008 - 38 1802009 - 37 1622010 - 48 1502011 - 38 1652012 - 35 1652013 - 31 1842014 - 39 1572015 - 32 164 -
Reply by furlong47 on Wed Dec 30, 2015 at 0:11 amHopefully this isn't too wide to view. Click here to open the link to it.Green line is number of people (divided by ten for scale purposes). Yes the pink trend line looks bad
Blue is ranked runnersRed is events
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Reply by edscott on Thu Dec 31, 2015 at 4:00 pmYes, about 10 years ago we were holding many Saturday White/Yellow events. There was instruction, but the focus was on getting people out and running a course. It was good for generating interest and membership as well as providing a way for inexperienced course setters to set courses without the pressure of providing an array of advanced courses. There were weekends when we had two Saturdays events in different parts of our region, followed by a full event on Sunday.
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Reply by ErikEddy on Thu Jan 7, 2016 at 3:15 pmThe best motivation to come out is to be invited by a friend. Bring a friend to an event, teach them.. maybe walk part of a course with them, run yours quick, plan to have lunch (and a beer?) after. I find these to be my most enjoyable events! We provide a great activity... do your part and those numbers will rise.
